I would be concerned if this was my child,i really think we need a rethink. When my children went to school in Salford i expected them to be guided and most of all protected i would be devastated to be told the school had any idea my child was getting her child aborted and i had no part in helping her to decide her future..
Jun
7
2012
It is not a matter for the schools discretion. The guidelines were laid down by the House of Lords in the Gillick case. If the young person does not wish their parents to be informed then normally the rules of medical confidentiality apply and you cannot compel the young person to release the information. Otherwise if the young person knew the school would inform their parents then they would not talk to the school. All these cases are horrible but the House of Lords took the view that the best thing was not to discourage someone from seeking help
So in the event the child faced complications during the abortion would the blame be shared? i understand fully the case but it cannot be exceptable.For instance we ask our teachers and staff to report possible abuse,then why not under age sex?the child was 15
The school had no role in the abortion that was the hospitals decision . How would the young person knowing who ever she confided in would tell parents have helped? That’s why the House of Lords took the view it did
The issue that concerns me is this girl was 15 the legal age i believe to consent for sex is 16 if i was a teacher i would be concerned over the fact the law may have been broken,would you not agree? do you think it right for others to in effect commit to a decision that will scar this girl for life and defend that decision on the grounds they felt her mature enough to destroy a life?i think in your new role this issue needs more thought,i will beseeking views from others more experienced in this topic than i,this issue is something i feel very strongly about.
It was based on one question as to whether in the medical staffs view the woman hd sufficient maturity to make a decision.
It was based on one question as to whether in the medical staffs view the woman had sufficient maturity to make a decision.
John she was not a women she was 15,a child in any ones eyes
Are you seriously suggesting that I should tell the school to flout the law and refuse to apply the decision of the House of Lords acting as the supreme law court. Instead you want to see her prosecuted for under age sex? Can I remind you that none of these decisions were taken by teachers. It was medical staff who decided whether she was able to make a decision on abortion and it would be up to the CPS to make any decisions about prosecutions
Sometimes i worry about your take on an form of argument, it’s not the girl who should be prosecuted my thoughts lay with who had sex with her. But if we whereto go further i would have thought you should read the case you quote in depth,the whole issue depends on is the person muture enough to make the decision on treatment. Are we to ignore the safety of a person in our care,teenage pregnanacy is rife under Salford labour i think i understand why.I believe it’s time to take some form of stand.
Believe me I know the principles established in the Gillick case . Let me be clear if two 15 year olds had consensual sex you would prosecute the male but not the female ? If a doctor is consulted by a 15 year old you would lay a duty on the doctor to break medical confidentiality ? I worry about your failure to think these things through. I am appalled that you are trying to make a political point about this as far as I am aware the Green Party nationally is not campaigning for a change in the law.
Well it’s good so see we both agree on what the law is on under age sex,perhaps we should ask the public their views on the issue and how it was handled?perhaps it’s time to ask the question,both publicly and in the closer confines of my party,you would agree that as active oppostion i have the right to question and highlight any issues of concern,and to make one point clear i will attack your party on any issue over the next two years if i feel the need. We have lost one set of oppostion in Salford perhpas we should be looking to fill the void .
I don’t mind engaging in debate with you. I cannot see however how a doctor saying “if you consult me I will tell your parents ” would help. Of course the doctor could try and persaude the person concerned it would be a good idea but the doctor has a duty to their patient to respect their views.
I am glad you have responded you at least have the guts to express your views.I of course have the right to disagree. I have asked for a legal view to be clear on my concerns,i offer my concerns on the fact the girl had sex under age in my view a crime,i offer my concerns on the fact was she mature enough to make a decision,and of course you talk of the doctor,i talk of a school do they have the experience to make such a decision in regards to a life?i would hope when my grandaughter goes to school they take the responsiblity for her safety and allow the parents to make the decisions that may effect her life.
It’s the doctor that makes the decision but just think about the dilemma. If the patient knows that their parents will be told and does not want them to be told who do they turn to? You may be opposed to the current law on abortion but do we want a return to backstreet abortion because you place a legal duty on doctors not to help 15 year olds without parental consent?
Yes John, it is the doctor who made the decision,but,who decided to refer the CHILD to the doctor,I am aware of the Gillick case and its findings have been quoted in this instance,but,the Gillick case was specific to contraception and did not include abortion, also the term loco parentis has been used to justify the teachers actions,for many years i was a youth worker in Salford and took many young people on trips, all of which required consent forms, but these only gave limited powers unless there was a life threatening situation in which case the parents had authorised the named person to act “in Loco parentis” and sign for any surgical procedure required,but the parents must be notified of any such treatment. as i understand it, the loco parentis rule allows medical treatment to be signed for providing there is no risk and I think that abortion is a definate risk, so what will be the next step John, remove all children from parental care and let them be brought up by the state as good little comrades, it still happens in Russia.
The principle was quite clear Ron and you still have to answer the question if the person concerned cannot turn to anyone without their Confidentialty being breached then how is that going to help. Are you going to campaign for a law that makes it illegal for someone under the age of 16 to have any medical procedure without their parents consent?
Yes John, the princile is quite clear, as is the application of the Gillick competency test which I assume you are aware of which states that the test must be applied before the child can be deemed competant,I assume that this was done and if so who was it who performed the test? as for campaigning perhaps you are not aware that I retired from politics after the last elections,my interest in this matter is the fact that i have worked with young people for many years and watched the demise of Salford Youth service with great sadness,the demise was caused by the appointment of clueless people who had never worked with the young,your predecessor was a prime example of that
If you look above you will see I exactly made that point and it would be the medical staff who applied the test. Sorry to hear of your retirement and I hope you will see a youth service trying to do its best under difficult circumstances
Thanks for your comment on my retirement, if you want a resurgent youth service, do what the youth workers of the 70;s advised the council to do and that was to take youth service out of the education budget,because the greater the education need,the smaller the share for youth service, you see the results today